Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 UPDATED 2x

Cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama.

John McCain's negative attacks are beginning to work:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows the race for the White House is tied with Barack Obama and John McCain each attracting 44% of the vote. However, when "leaners" are included, it's McCain 47% and Obama 46%. This is the first time McCain has enjoyed even a statistically insignificant advantage of any sort since Obama clinched the Democratic nomination on June 3 (see recent daily results). Tracking Polls are released at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time each day.

What happened?  McCain has opened up a lead among independents:

A week ago today, Obama had a three-percentage point lead and the candidates were even among unaffiliated voters. Today, McCain leads 52% to 37% among unaffiliateds.

The negative attacks have taken their toll on Obama's favorables...especially among independents:

McCain is currently viewed favorably by 55% of the nation's voters, Obama by 51%. That is the lowest rating for Obama since he wrapped up the nomination. Obama is viewed favorably by 83% of Democrats, 22% of Republicans, and 47% of unaffiliated voters. For McCain, the numbers are 87% favorable among Republicans, 26% among Democrats, and 61% among unaffiliated voters.

During the primaries, Hillary repeated warned that his numbers would start to fall when the GOP attack machine kicked into high gear.  And now they have.

The Obama campaign cannot replicate their strategy of It's the same old Washington politics.  The Washington politician is picking on me.  Shame on the Washington politician.  The Washington politician he is facing is a known--and respected--politician.

There's been some chatter lately about the need for Obama to bring in a fighter.  I hope Obama heeds the call because Hope and Change aren't going to be enough in this election.

UPDATED at 3:08pm by Psychodrew:

As one of the purity trolls below pointed out, I forgot to include the link in my diary. I have fixed that. For those of you who are not intelligent enough to know that you can find Rasmussen's website through Google, I apologize--and pity you.

UPDATED at 3:39pm by Psychodrew:

There are now THREE response diaries on the rec list! I'm flattered, guys. Truly.

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Display:


Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 6)

McCain started to early, Obama will hit back like his new energy, ad, but McCain 3 months of being negative?

yeah that will back fire, they pulled this to early


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:46:42 AM EST

I don't like Obama on the attack. (2.00 / 4)

It just doesn't seem natural to him.  I think he needs a vicious attack dog VP.  What do you think?


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:49:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed. n/t (1.80 / 5)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:39:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't like Obama on the attack. (1.50 / 2)

I think drew that you STILL haven't gotten over your primary loss, and use every chance you get to bring Hillary into a conversation. And just to remiind you the G.E. is won state by state. We use the electrol college to elect the President. It's done state by state, and by that metric Obama is leading McCain. Thank you for your concern though, it's really helping to elect our democratic nominee.


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unfair, I think. n/t (2.00 / 3)


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Purity troll alert! (1.20 / 5)

DFTT


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 02:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Purity troll alert! (none / 0)

So I guess this makes you an UnPure Troll. Nice!


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did I hurt your feelings? (1.00 / 3)

Photobucket


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Birds of a feather (none / 0)

Oh god, I just read your tag line and the fact that you are blogging with Linfar tells me alot about your integrity or lack their of. She has ZERO credidbilty left, after her discusting behavior over prayer gate.


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (1.00 / 4)

Photobucket


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (none / 0)

Your self portrait says it all.


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (none / 0)

psychodrew, I commend you for speaking your mind regardless of the potential attacks that some responders would provide.

I'll tell you that a picture speaks a thousand words. It's so clear and concise! Kudos to you...


by Check077 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 04:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (1.00 / 2)

Thanks!

Venetian is a purity troll.  He hates people who don't agree with him.  Most people here aren't like that.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 06:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (none / 0)

So that makes you, what, an unPure troll


by venician on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:04:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Birds of a feather (2.00 / 1)

ah, thanks for coming out of the closet as a pro-McLamer. I suspected, nice that you confirm it finally after all your trolling


by zerosumgame on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ask mommy for a hug... (none / 0)

Photobucket


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No way. (2.00 / 2)

Do not agree. At all.

The national polling trends are a little silly, since Obama has been making serious gains in the Electoral College all week. Rasmussen always leans a little right, especially in their "Likely Voter" model (something they indirectly admitted a couple weeks ago).

Obama's win in the primaries is a perfect model for what we can expect for the general election: He learned the rules, he played by the rules, he won by the rules.

Do we need an attack dog? No way. We need a member of the team. McCain can attack until he's blue in the face. His surrogates will continue to release contradictory, absurd, and baseless accusations. The RNC will continue to release ads and statements that paint Obama as an elitist  celebrity. This will not change, regardless of who we have as VP.

This election will be won on the ground. No matter what Rasmussen of Gallup is telling you, McCain's attacks do one thing really, really well: they fire up the Democratic base.

For me, I'll stick with the numbers at 538.


by not Brit on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:13:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Smart strategy! (2.00 / 1)

Find the poll that confirms what you believe and champion it.

Brilliant!


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 02:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (none / 0)

No, that's what you've just done.  538 has all the polls, and averages them.

You take the worst one and write a diary on it.


I'm voting for Saxby Chambliss!
by Jess81 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (none / 0)

Thank you Jess, that is exactly what he's done.


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (none / 0)

I wrote a diary because the results are worth discussing.  If you can't handle uncomfortable facts and dissenting points of view, you need to swim in the kiddie pool.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 06:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (none / 0)

It's not that I "can't handle" it, that's a silly charge. It's that daily tracking polls are f#%@ing stupid.

Let's ignore the fact that daily polls 90 days before an election are useless indicators. Let's also ignore the fact that "likely voter" models are thrown out the window this year. Let's also ignore the fact that Rasmussen actually LOWERED their percentage of Democrats this month. Oh, and please ignore the fact that 30% of the country has yet to watch a speech by EITHER candidate. Please ignore the fact that polls have a proven tendency to create opinion, rather than measure it. And, oh yeah, you have to ignore the fact that the electoral college, not a popular vote, will decide the presidential election.

You can ignore all of that as long as you recognize that polling from a single organization simply cannot accurately measure A) actual national preference B) likelihood of voter turnout or C) volunteer and voter enthusiasm.

So f#%@ your kiddie pool. If you're interested in numbers, let's talk about the numbers at Pollster, RCP, or 538. At least they are trying to find an accurate measurement.


by not Brit on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (1.00 / 1)

I'm not embracing this poll to the exclusion of all others.  I felt the results merited a discussion as it showed a drop in support among independents.

Go back to the kiddie pool and don't forget your floaties.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart strategy! (none / 0)

Come on, man. I understand holding on to an opinion, but don't be a dick.

Floaties.


by not Brit on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:17:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 1)

You put too much faith in tracking poll's.

Most poll's during the primary season under-estimated Obama's support. In other words he out performed the poll's in nearly all states which measured his support whether he won or lost.

Examople Missouri. Survey USA showed Hillary winning by 7-8 PTS AND oBAMA won by 1-2 pts


by BDM on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 2)

I don't put too much faith in tracking polls.

This far out, they're not very useful, but they're good for identifying a trend.

I'm not saying that the sky is falling and McCain is going to win.  What I'm saying is that this election is not going to be a cake walk.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (none / 0)

There are a couple of areas of the country where McCain is doing extremely well: Oklahoma (+32); Kentucky (+21); Kansas (+23); Utah (+19).

Of course there are some large states where Obama is doing well: California (+15); New York (+20); Illinois (+17).

When we see a shift in California (for example) of +20 to +15, it makes a big difference in the national average, but Obama is going to win Califoria no matter what.

I think that the national polls are essentially useless.  It's like watching a baseball game and only paying attention to the number of walks.  Issuing too many walks will be harmful to a team's chances, but that is not how the game is scored.

We can like it or not like it, but all that matters is the electoral college.  And I think Obama is looking like a 300+ candidate there.


by smoker1 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (none / 0)

This election could very well be a blowout.  But his leads in many of those states are within the margin of error.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have the advantage here.  He does.  What I'm saying is that--according to this poll--he's not doing as well among independents as was three weeks ago.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (none / 0)

May be the case.  Voters could be tired of it come October.

But the poster is right.  Obama does need to bring in an attack dog, and he really does need to consider Clinton.  Believe me, I'm not sanguine about that.


by Drummond on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:59:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Tips/flames?? (2.00 / 4)

I am wearing my flame retardant pantsuit.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:47:34 AM EST

Re: Tips/flames?? (none / 0)

Guess you had to wait a couple months to uncork this one.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Independents are key (2.00 / 2)

If Obama drops among Independents, he is in trouble.

I'm not sure if this is the race card stuff or oil drilling or the general ad campaign. But he needs to run about even among Independents.


by elrod on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:48:09 AM EST

Re: The Independents are key (2.00 / 3)

It's early, but this is a wake-up call.  This election isn't going to be a cake walk.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:52:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the end of the world as we know it... (2.00 / 1)

...and I feel fine.


by conspiracy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:48:10 AM EST

Obama had a GREAT primary strategy. (2.00 / 3)

Now. he needs a different strategy for the  general election.
Simply TR'ing opponents, or yelling "racist!", works in a democratic primary, NOT a general election.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:51:50 AM EST

Re: Obama had a GREAT primary strategy. (2.00 / 6)

Simply TR'ing opponents

I didn't know candidates could troll rate!  You learn something new everyday.  ;)


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:54:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama had a GREAT primary strategy. (2.00 / 12)

Where have you been?  It was a big controversy a few weeks ago.  McCain troll rated a comment by Obama, and Obama responded by going into McCain's comment history and troll rating like ten random comments.  It was all over Fox News.  What rock have you been living under?  Obama should be banned from the blogs.  What a jerk!


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha! Love it! n/t (2.00 / 1)


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:21:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This was bound to happen (2.00 / 1)

But the Obama campaign has begun to hit hard this week.

Let's see what happens.


by puma on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:52:21 AM EST

Re: This was bound to happen (2.00 / 1)

Why was it bound to happen that our candidate would be losing in one of the major tracking polls while our party enjoyed a 13 point advantage in the generic congressional ballot?

I've still got faith that Obama can hit back and that we will win in the end.  But let's be honest here.  McCain has basically won the summer on balance thus far.  Given the overall political environment, they are probably ecstatic to be where they are right now.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This was bound to happen (2.00 / 4)

I agree with (and I hate this username) puma.

We were never going to just sail into the White House.  It was always going to be a fight.

Well my claws are out!  Are yours?


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:02:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This was bound to happen (2.00 / 1)

My claws have been out for some time.

It was always going to be a fight, as presidential campaigns nearly always are.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop thinking critically about how the race is developing.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This was bound to happen (none / 0)

Please continue to think critically.  I just don't agree with you.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Looks like they learned from (2.00 / 3)

their failures of last week.

They came out attacking this week.


by Geekesque on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:59:55 AM EST

I haven't seen the news today. (2.00 / 3)

What's going on?

Personally, I don't like Obama on the attack.  It just doesn't seem to suit him.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

there's a contrast ad on gas prices (none / 0)

It's only a small start on what needs to be done.


New Jersey politics and news
by John DE on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:28:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pointing out that McCain is in (2.00 / 4)

the pocket of the oil companies like Bush is.


by Geekesque on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I haven't seen the news today. (none / 0)

Agreed.  But at least it's a substance attack.


by Drummond on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (1.33 / 3)

McCain will be in the lead all but a few days until the election and will win by 6-8%.

Obama needs to cancel his vacation--and what's this stuff about tire gauges?

I'm really just going to focus on Congress the
rest of the way.  It's over.


by esconded on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:03:48 AM EST

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 5)

You're being a little dramatic.

One tracking poll has given McCain a non-significant lead.  It's not a reason to give up (or celebrate if you're a McBlogger).  It's a reason to fight.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree he is going on vacation at... (2.00 / 3)

...exactly the wrong time but you are overreacting with the other stuff.


by conspiracy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But he's been working out 3x per day (none / 0)

He'll get photographed with his shirt off in Hawaii, and his poll numbers will rise.


by catfish2 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the belly laugh! (2.00 / 1)

It made my morning.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for your help, Chicken Little. We'd best go warn the King.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Independents are the ones (2.00 / 2)

most persuadable on the basis of flip-flopping charges.  That's why I didn't feel his support of the offshore drilling compromise, even if the support was lukewarm, was good politics, let alone good policy.  Indies often prefer a candidate that "tells them what they need to hear, rather than what they want to hear," even if they disagree with the candidate.

Obama still has room to improve among dems as well; he doesn't need to improve among indies if he can perform better among dems.  Rasmussen has him getting fewer than 80% of dems; Obama should be able to secure at least 85% of dems.


by Blazers Edge on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:05:18 AM EST

Re: Independents are the ones (none / 0)

I think you have to be deaf to take what he said about off-shore drilling and call it a flip flop.  The fact that the MSM is labeling that way reinforces my opinion that most people on TV are complete idiots who do not deserve to be there.


by shalca on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 01:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thing is, McCain hasn't closed the deal either (2.00 / 5)

he isn't really offering a theme. I think it will work out for Obama, and you know I don't like saying that.


by catfish2 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:07:55 AM EST

I know that's hard for you to write! ;) (2.00 / 2)

I agree.  The other guy is an elitist, out-of-touch empty isn't much of a GE strategy.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:17:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thing is, McCain hasn't closed the deal either (none / 0)

This is the flipside of all this polling.  McCain has a really hard time breaking through about 44-45% without leaners and 47% with leaners in any poll.

There are a lot of people out there who aren't sold yet on Obama but just can't bring themselves to vote for McCain.  


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thing is, McCain hasn't closed the deal either (2.00 / 2)

:~)

yep.  It's worth being appropriately paranoid - sometimes people are out to get you (and they are out to get us) - but I'd still rather be supporting the Dems than the GOP any day with the way things are going.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:08:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 3)

And a fightback is overdue. But let's not forget the underlying essentials

08USPresGEMvO600.png


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:08:38 AM EST

Re: It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 1)

I'll point out one thing.  When I checked that a few days ago, Obama was up 4.6%.  Now his lead is down to 2.6%.  So the race is tightening.

But I'm not exactly losing sleep right now.  It's still early.  I just hope everybody realizes that despite the enthusiasm and the money advantage, this is not going to be a cakewalk.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:20:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 1)

I concur completely. Personally, I think McCain is trying to activate the base and get the low shots in now. It hasn't really dented the polls too much - it reminds of the Wright phase of the primary wars.

However, if you read comments on some of the bigger blogs and newspapers, there's definitely a concerted attack on the blogosphere too, and it does have an impact. Voter registration and local organisation is IMHO more important, but we're going through a dip in morale. Your diary is important to wake us up. The TREND is in Obama's favour, but he's an easy candidate to scare some folks with, and without the progressive left keeping his back, he would be vulnerable.


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 2)

Dude,

What is up?  Got my rec ability back.  My personal guess is this election is going to be much closer than many dems think.  While i am in favor of the 50 state plan the truth is BO needs to win either OH or CO and NM.  He should concentrate on either of those two plans.

As for OH if HRC is the VP than IMHO that would do the trick.  And one last thing. The last FOX poll (ok FOX is full of it but whatever) had BO up by 1% but when it was chnaged to McCain/Rommey versus BO/HRC that lead went form 1% to 10%.  Just my opinion.

best  david


by giusd on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 1)

Totally agree.

Dear John McCain:

Please, please, please pick Mitt Romney as your veep.

Thank you for your consideration.


by TL on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a shot across the bows (2.00 / 1)

Remember RCP doesnot include the Research 2000 poll of last week.

Obama 51
McCAIN 39


by BDM on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:40:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a shot across the bows (none / 0)

That chart is from pollster.com, not RCP.  


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:23:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 1)

It'll be just fine.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:11:16 AM EST

where's the trend (2.00 / 1)

The Rasmussen tracking poll has been close for weeks now, this is not surprising that it's within it's margin of error. The alarm isn't really that resounding, we all knew this would be close. The generic candidate argument is bunk too


by Dog Chains on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:12:18 AM EST

Re: where's the trend (2.00 / 1)

" we all knew this would be close. The generic candidate argument is bunk too "

- really ?

I could have sworn all I read about was electoral landslides , reallignment etc.

Maybe you were a more prudent and didn't partake  in that but others were.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:22:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (none / 0)

There is a realignment, but these things are always tendencies. There's no one revolutionary moment. I remember last summer when Obama was well down in the polls, but during that time he and his team were out organising like mad.

There's nothing messianic or inevitable about this, but the strategy worked during the primaries. At this stage, a certain amount of trust is required. It has to be earned, true. But registration and participation at state level is extraordinary, and I am for one pretty convinced by that level of strategy. On the EVs he's still heading for a landslide.

On the bigger propaganda battle, this hopefully will wake the team up a bit. No one said it would be easy to defeat the republican machine. But this the best shot available, and I think it will pay off, bigtime.


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:34:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

organizing (2.00 / 2)

From most signs Obama really is investing heavily in field, which is unusual for Democratic presidential campaigns. As far as I can tell he is being very smart and forward-looking in how he is organizing. But speaking as a big advocate for more investment in field in the end it can only make a marginal handful of percentage points difference. Message and media are still very important. Obama's efforts may force McCain to spend money in places that should be safe, and in a tight race Obama's field investment may make the difference.

The record from the primaries argues against Obama's organizing strategy. Despite a huge investment in field and media Obama was unable to change the dynamics in primary states. His organizing made a difference in caucuses, but the general election is not a caucus.


by souvarine on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: organizing (2.00 / 1)

We'll have to disagree on this, or risk restarting the flame wars. Obama exceeded expectations in MOST states and not just caucuses. There was a pushback in Appalachia and Latinos, but now a lot of those votes are behind him too. Check out the swing states in Pollster, Poblano, or RCP. Obama's created several NEW ones.

My point is that at this stage during the primary cycle, Obama was out organising by a long shot, and that finally cruised him through to victory. Registration and turnout will give him a 5 point bounce. He leads 2.5 on the RCP average now, BEFORE the Veep choice and Denver.

I'm not complacent, but I'm not deeply concerned. Having been through this as an Obama supporter for over a year, I recognise a pattern.


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Denver worries me (none / 0)

because conventions are not that exciting unless you're a political geek. How will the MSM try to get better ratings? Will they do endless stories about the five pro-Clinton protesters and call it a party schism that makes 1968 look like a high school prom? Will they hurt Obama during the convention putting more weight on "why can't he close the sale?" and less on his speeches and the party's platform.

I'd be willing to bet on it.

I would never put anything past the American MSM, I know, I used to work for them.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denver worries me (none / 0)

I hope the media does keep tabs on the deadenders. They should set up a shop out side their convention site, which is the CHEESE CAKE FACTOY!


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 01:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Will they over-cover his stadium speech? (none / 0)

That could backfire too.


by catfish2 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 05:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will they over-cover his stadium speech? (none / 0)

Yeah, because Americans hate people who are popular.


by venician on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 05:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (2.00 / 1)

There's nothing inconsistent with the two. Tracking polls show a close race, and anything outside of a 3-4 point final margin would be very surprising (for either side).

However, state-by-state electoral polling consistently shows Obama with a giant advantage (303/235 according to FiveThirtyEight, 284/147 with 107 tossup according to Pollster). Furthermore, these electoral maps show a great deal of realignment, with Obama picking up all Kerry states plus Ohio, and a number of formerly red states as tossup or Democratic.

So it's possible for this to be a close race in overall polling and yet not close at all in the Electoral College. There's very little room for McCain to win in the Electoral College -- he has to defend every single tossup state and pick off at least one Kerry state or Ohio, or he's toast. That's an extremely tall order.

Yes, Ras is showing a slight McCain lead. Negative campaigning will do that in the short term. In the longer term, he's trashed his image, started to actively alienate the press and some of his big-money donors, and only gained a couple short-term points for it. This is a pretty good ad campaign -- for late October. For late July it's a disaster.

Yes, Kerry was swiftboated by this time. The difference is that the swiftboating was done by 527's and Bush could pretend to be above it all, whereas this is McCain's campaign itself. The negatives from going negative didn't accrue to the Bush campaign the way the way these are hitting McCain.

Until we see significant movement in the state-by-state polling, this election is not "close" in the terms that actually matter. That doesn't mean there's any room for complacency, but it also means that there's no reason to get too excited about a one-point McCain blip in a tracking poll.

HRC is still a far tougher opponent than McCain will ever be, even counting the likely upcoming 527 slime ads.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:45:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (2.00 / 1)

I am just disputing the point the poster was making ,

" we all knew it would be close "

That wasn't the case 2 - 3 weeks ago when polls were coming out showing a bigger lead for Obama in national and state by state polling .

While I don't give any credence to tracking polls for now , it is also important to point out Mccain is closing the gap in a lot of these battleground states state by state.

That said the handwringing isn't justified in my opinion.

Also I believe like I have said for over a year , at the end of the day there would not be an electoral landslide and very little realligment state by state.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:54:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (none / 0)

Well, those 2 things are not mutually exclusive, Obama could win the election by 2% and still have an electoral landslide. But whatever, if life teaches us anything, it's that polling means nothing, especially this far out, and that you don't like Obama, so anything you say is tilted by that.


by Dog Chains on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:25:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (none / 0)

This has very little to do with Obama.

You made a claim that isn't borne out by reality and I disputed it .

Thats all.

" We all knew it would be close " is just not an accurate statement.

Your opinions on other issues is irrelevant.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where's the trend (none / 0)

Funny thing about this is, you and I are saying the same thing, anyone who thought that this wasn't going to be close is not thinking logically, we just arrive at it different ways and from different perspectives.


by Dog Chains on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 12:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has three aces (none / 0)

McCain needs to pull an inside straight on the river to beat him.


by activatedbybush on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 1)

So what?

We all knew this was coming.  Now we are going to see the response.  It's no surprise that once the smear machine got ratcheted up, that he would take a short term hit.

But we've all got to help pull this one together or it's right-wing dominance of the courts and America in the gutter for another 4 years.

Once Obama hits backs and once the Clintons get back in the field, we'll battle ahead.  Remember, Ras has always had this close.  Seeing a slight McCain blip - or even a trend for a week or two - is cause for concern but we'll pull it out.


by mousethief on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:31:08 AM EST

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 2)

Hillary would beat McCain in a cake walk. The Super Delegates know this...yet they are going to nominate a guy who is going to have a hard time winning.  There's still time to win Democrats..come to your senses and give it to Hillary at the convention.  She'll make Obama her VP, which is more than Obama will ever do for her.


by karajan72 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:32:24 AM EST

Bah (2.00 / 2)

Why don't you just make stuff up? The polling was MORE difficult for Hillary last time she and McCain were head to head. Switching nominee now would be disastrous for dems.

Perhaps you know that...


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:38:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bah (2.00 / 2)

That is not correct.  Hillary consistently polled better against McCain than Obama throughout the entire primary season.  And Rasmussen did a poll a couple weeks ago showing Hillary beating McCain by 9 points and hitting 50%.  Obama only beat him by 2 and now Obama is 1 point behind in Rasmussen.  The Clintons know how to beat McCain and have had a strategy to do that for years.  They know how to win.  Obama doesn't have a clue.


by karajan72 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:40:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because. She. Has. Not. Been. Attacked. (2.00 / 3)


by conspiracy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:47:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why the primary wars? (2.00 / 1)

We're done with this now.

None of the Clinton/McCain polling means anything after, say, February, because Republicans stopped going negative on her around then.  McCain and the right have been going after Obama hard all this time; it's not surprising that his numbers are lower than Clinton's.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:47:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bah (2.00 / 3)

That's simply incorrect. HRC virtually never polled better than Obama vs. McCain except at two points: during the height of Wright-gate and at the end of the campaign, once Obama stopped campaigning against her and started running only against McCain.

So during Obama's worst period of the primaries, and during a period of time when no one was campaigning against her, HRC polled a bit better than Obama. Aside from that, she consistently polled considerably worse than Obama. It's a bit meaningless to say that HRC also polls better than Obama vs. McCain in July, when again, no one's been running against her for months. Flip the primary results around, with HRC the presumptive nominee, and I bet Obama would be up by 15 over McCain in July. It's pretty meaningless to compare polling when there's no actual race involved.

There's a reason why the McCain camp strongly preferred to run again HRC. They know how to beat her; they have no clue how to beat Obama.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:50:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Great points (2.00 / 1)

Been awhile since I saw your posts, TGW.  I pretty much came to the same conclusions.  

I think that this last week's disjointed attacks have been McCain trying desperately to find an accurate line of attack on Obama before the conventions basically reset the field.  I have a feeling that Obama's convention bump is going to be... more substantial than McCain's.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:28:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great points (2.00 / 1)

Thanks -- and yes, I've been trying to get back to some balance after the craziness of the primaries, which means posting less (still reading almost as much, though). But I'm still around.

I agree -- they just don't know what else to do, it's pretty clear, and they're hitting with what they have. They don't have much in the way of winning arguments on policy, so it's going to be all about personality.

I don't see much of a convention bump at all for McCain. The Republican convention is just not looking good right now; the Democratic convention is likely to be very high-energy, even without the move to Invesco Field. And unless something goes wrong, at this point you have to figure that the debates strongly favor Obama; McCain really is good at Town Halls, and Obama has his bad moments in debates -- but McCain is no HRC either, and at this point he doesn't have much of an answer on policy.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 01:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh yeah. (none / 0)

...but McCain is no HRC either...

You can say that again.  Obama doesn't have to use kid gloves against McCain in the upcoming debates, and McCain is a jucier target anyway.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 01:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bah (2.00 / 1)

Where did you get your figures?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/us/general_election_mccai n_vs_clinton-224.html

They show Hillary consistently behind.

And you fail to address the main point.


by duende on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Argghhh (none / 0)

Why oh why can we not have a civil discussion without people resorting to this BS! YOU ARE DELUDED.


by conspiracy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I love it. (2.00 / 2)

The ol' bait and switch.  No way that could backfire, no sir.

Good thing Clinton didn't shut down all of her field offices.  Wait, what?  


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:44:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your numbers don't make sense (1.50 / 2)

Where is the link?

How is this possible?:

A) "A week ago today, Obama had a three-percentage point lead and the candidates were even among unaffiliated voters."

B) "Today, McCain leads 52% to 37% among unaffiliateds."

C) Obama is only losing in this poll by 1%.

If McCain were ahead by 15% among independents his lead in this poll would be HUGE, not one percent.  What kind of bunk are you trying to sell us?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:40:24 AM EST

Re: Your numbers don't make sense (2.00 / 2)

whenever someone talks about McCain winning Independents I don't get to worried about it, because I remember the trend with Party ID.

those indies who like democrats have started IDing as democrats, thus Democrat ID is up, Republicans don't wanna ID as Republicans so they say they are indpendents, hence why GOP ID is down,

but that means that more and more the independent category will lean GOP as more and more Indies start IDing as Democrats


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:43:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your numbers don't make sense (2.00 / 1)

I understand your point and I agree with it, but still...a 15 point swing among any group in one week?  That just seems ridiculous. Nothing really happened this week.  

I found the LINK Maybe the diarist will be kind enough to add the link to his diary.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:52:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your numbers don't make sense (none / 0)

shrugs I have decided to let the world have their fun, we all know that turnout will be different this year, but no one really knows how, so they are all guessing on the methodology or using those from 2000  and 2004 which wont account for the new AA and youth votes

Obama won't stop working and I will wait till november I don't care what people say I think people will vote on issues in the end.

and more voters trust Obama to fix the economy then McCain


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:56:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your numbers don't make sense (2.00 / 1)

I'm with you. Once Obama starts talking about healthcare, the housing crisis and social security the voters will dump McCain faster than Angry John dumped his first wife.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:06:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe the better question should be... (2.00 / 1)

...what bunk is Rasmussen trying to sell us? I think it is probably because Obama is doing better with Democrats but Ras reckons there are now fewer Dems so who knows. But the tightening looks clear to me. At least in the tracking polls. Lets see what Gallup says later in the day and the snapshot polls we should get later in the week.


by conspiracy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:45:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your numbers don't make sense (2.00 / 1)

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/daily_presidential_trackin g_poll


Landslide of lies
by engels on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 11:16:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Purity troll alert! (1.00 / 3)

DFTT


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 2)

People will "diss" this poll because it's from Rasmussen but it seems in line with the Gallup Daily Tracking.


by handsomegent on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:42:36 AM EST

Gallup: McCain 44, Obama 45 (1.66 / 3)

Gallup has Obama ahead by one.  A trend upwards I might add.  LINK

Since these tracking polls three months before the election are wicked important it seems like your boy McCain is going to lose the whole think now.  Ha Ha!!


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong again. (none / 0)

Gallup has him up by three. Those are yesterday's numbers.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup: McCain 44, Obama 45 (2.00 / 2)

Aw come on BN....remember what I said about holstering your weapons?

Pyschodrew is NOT a PUMA...is NOT a McTroll...is NOT promoting/voting for McCain.

While you (and others, to be sure) like to accuse some C4O's of continuing the Primary battle...you fail to notice that you actively do so yourself.

Save your ammo for the real foes.
They are actually pretty easy to spot if you pay attention.


by Kysen on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup: McCain 44, Obama 45 (none / 0)

Baby steps.  

The points I made about this diary were legitimate and I haven't tried to discuss the alleged troll-like qualities of the diarist at all.  I think that is an improvement.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup: McCain 44, Obama 45 (2.00 / 1)

Well, I for one think that a good faith effort from both sides (in this case, I am speaking of Overzealous Obama supporters and C4Os) would yield a more focused MYDD. The two groups really do have far more in common than not. First and foremost....both groups are actively working to see the Democrats (including Obama) win big in November. Secondly, both have legitimate 'gripes' with one another...but, quite frankly, the vast majority of said gripes are quite petty when one looks at the big picture.

(Please note that I am NOT speaking of PUMAz and/or other outright Trolls...show no mercy for them)

(Baby steps are good...but, November is too close to dawdle)

;)


by Kysen on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 04:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen: McCain 47, Obama 46 (2.00 / 2)

Obama's ground game and organization is much superior to McCAINS. iT IS WORTH 2 TO 2-1/2 PTS.

If the election were held today, Obama WOULD WIN BY 5 TO 6 pts.


by BDM on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 10:44:02 AM EST

Good point. (none / 0)

His organization is definitely superior.  If you combine that with dampened GOP enthusiasm, his advantage is even better.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 03:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain = Bush: That's the winner (2.00 / 2)

Bush is McCain's biggest liability.

Obama should release a new ad every day for about a week showing Bush and McCain together.


by elrod on Mon A